Janecke Aarnaes

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I'd like to welcome today's
guest, Yaneka Arnez, Head of

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School at the International
School of Bologna.

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Yaneka is an international
educator with over 30 years

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experience leading and Building
Schools around the world.

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Prior to Bologna, Yaneka has
held senior leadership roles in

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national and International
School settings across Europe

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and the Middle East.
She's known for being a

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passionate IB educator and
deeply committed to student

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centered learning, creating
environments where learners can

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think critically, reflect and
take action that matters locally

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and globally.
Welcome, Yanika.

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Thank you, Kevin.
I'm very happy to be here with

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you.
Yeah, I'm, I'm so glad we've got

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some time to to have a chat.
I'm really looking forward to it

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me.
Too.

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I'm wondering if you could start
a little bit by sharing a bit

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about your journey in education
and what's brought you to your

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current role in Bologna.
Yeah, great.

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I think when people ask that
question, I have a tendency to

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say that I stumbled into
education.

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It wasn't what I planned.
If I go back to when I was in

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high school and I wanted to work
internationally and I went to

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Paris to study international
politics and saw myself in, in

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an international industry, but
not in the, in the international

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education industry.
So during my years of study, I

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started teaching languages as a
side job while I was a student.

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And I loved that.
It gave me a lot of experience

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and pleasure.
And it led me to my first

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permanent teaching job while I
was still in my, the master's

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program.
So I hadn't, I hadn't planned on

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becoming a teacher, but I, as I
said, stumbled into it.

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And then after a little while, I
thought, wow, really, this, this

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really resonates with me.
I love doing this.

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So the idea of going into an
international organization or

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working in, I don't know,
politics or diplomacy, which was

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kind of the idea I had in high
school, didn't seem so important

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anymore.
And I had to decide that, OK, I

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think I'll do this, and then
we'll see what life brings.

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And then I ended up being a
language teacher for a while,

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which led me into education.
And here I am.

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So I've kind of never left
school.

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But what a great story.
And it's, it's a very familiar

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story, I think, for a lot of
people that have somehow never

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intended to work in education
but have somehow stumbled into

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it or upon it and just love it
and never leave.

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True, true.
And you talked a little bit

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there about your desire to work
internationally and across

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cultures and regions.
How have those experiences

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since?
How have they shaped your kind

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of leadership philosophy today?
They have been fundamental to my

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own personal development.
I I can remember when I was in

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middle school, I was doodling
and I created my own personal

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logo with the globe.
And they above the globe it said

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citizen of the world and above
it it said my name.

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And I thought, I definitely have
had this desire to get to know

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other cultures, to get to know
other languages, to understand

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people from different
perspectives since I was quite

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young myself.
And that curiosity has helped me

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navigate the international
landscape because I have

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fundamentally approached it with
that open mind and wanting to

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know about people, wanting to
know about things I am not

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familiar with and but being
curious rather than than

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skeptical and fearful.
And now after several years, I

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can actually say after decades
in international education, I

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really understand how important
that kind of mindset is.

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There's so little we know and so
much we can know if we are open

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minded and interested in finding
out about others.

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And it's absolutely essential to
be successful, I think, in the

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international education
landscape.

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Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
And it's it's, I think what I

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have noticed is those people
that are most successful are the

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ones that have a great sense of
curiosity about other cultures

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and other people.
And they're the ones that are

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most easily able to to navigate
it and to to be resilient and

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overcome challenges that that
often come with operating

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internationally sometimes.
Has there been any pivotal

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moments that you can recall in
your career that really shifted

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the way you approached your role
as a school leader?

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I took a headship at Oslo
International School in Norway,

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and Norway is my home country.
I had been abroad for many

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years.
I was not intending to go back

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to Norway.
So I chose the school video or

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the school chose me because it
was a perfect match fill if

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match philosophically.
So the country was kind of

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secondary, but of course it was
great from, for myself, my, my

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children to come back to Norway
for a while and be close to our

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families in that school.
A, the school was kind of

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divided into half.
Half had a British background,

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half of it had a American
background.

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Everybody spoke English, of
course.

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And it was the first moment in
my life where I realized that

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the cultural divide is not only
language.

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I mean, it's not language driven
necessary because we speak the

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same language.
So we spoke English in the

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school.
And it was a very curious moment

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for me to really understand that
you can have significant

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cultural differences although
you speak the same language and

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you master the language.
Because the biggest cultural

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challenges were between the two
English speaking groups, not

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between non-native speakers and
native speakers.

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And I think that for me was a
fundamental moment because I am

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very, very curious about
languages in general.

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What I taught as as a teacher
was languages.

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So for me to really see this
aspect through a language

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conflict that open really opened
my eyes to the nuances of

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culture.
Because culture is not only

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culture across borders, it's
culture within within

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communities.
And this was, I've had several

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headships after that.
So it was very valuable for me

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to come to that realization
quite quite early on that the

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language we use matters a lot in
the way we exercise our role as

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leaders, of course, as we
exercise our roles in general.

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But then to me it I approach it
from the leadership lens that I

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really have to be mindful of the
language that I choose to use.

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Yeah, very interesting.
Interesting.

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And look, just out of curiosity,
what languages do you speak?

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So I, of course, I grew up
speaking in Norwegian.

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That's my, that's my own home
language.

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Then I am very comfortable with
English.

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You can definitely hear that I'm
not a native speaker, but I, I

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feel like a native speaker.
I I use English more often than

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I use my home language.
I studied in France after high

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school, so I had the opportunity
to learn French at a academic

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level.
So I would say that I feel as

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comfortable in French as I am in
English.

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I have now been in Italy for
three years and I could order a

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pizza or a cappuccino when I
arrived, but now I can discuss

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politics and meet with parents
about complicated matters about

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student well-being or about can
talk about the pedagogy.

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So I'm happy to say now that I
can speak Italian as well.

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I managed well in Spanish, but I
wouldn't say at the same level

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the same with German.
As a Scandinavian we have at

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least my generation.
We we also understand Swedish

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and Danish and we can speak with
each other with relative ES.

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When I grew up, Norway had one
television channel and Sweden

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had two, and the old Norwegian
households had the two Swedish

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channels.
So I watched more Swedish

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television than Norwegian and
that helped access the language.

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I'm sad to say that although I
lived five years in the UAE, I

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was not able to pick up Arabic.
And that's my although I should

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be proud that I speak many
languages, I am still bothered

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by the fact that I haven't been
able to learn Arabic.

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I know some words only and
that's my personal ambition.

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I will learn the language even
if I'm not in an Arab speaking

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country right now.
Great, very good, very good.

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So you talked a little bit about
where you are at the moment and

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that ISB.
So, you know, we talk about, and

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then you reference a little bit
before about cultural awareness

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and you know, part of a lot of
schools mission is about

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developing global citizens and,
and preparing students to, you

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know, positively impact the
world after they they leave

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school.
What are some of the things,

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what does that look like to you
and ISB and and your community

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there?
For me, I think this one of the

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essences of develop, of being
able to instill that notion that

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an individual can have an impact
in the world is to really use

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education as an opportunity to
create that confidence in young

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people.
I think it's fundamental that we

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believe that we have an
individual value, that an

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individual person matters, Your
voice matters, your ideas

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matter.
They might be different from

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other people's ideas and that's
why they matter even more.

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So I think the skills that we
can give our young people is

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really what is going to be the
the door opener to that better

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future.
And if everybody in education or

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through education, not in
education, but everybody through

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education could leave, you know,
that trace inside of them and

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and harness that and let that
grow throughout their life.

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I think we really, I do really
believe that we have the power

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through education to help the
world be shaped in a better way

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in the future.
Yeah, that's a, that's a really

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great point.
So how do you see, you know, in

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in terms of instilling though
that that sense of confidence or

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ability in in our students, You
know, also how do you go about

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developing that?
Also that sense of

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responsibility for in them when
they leave school that, you

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know, they can make an impact,
they can do something and and

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they perhaps have an obligation
or responsibility to to, you

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know, make a positive impact.
How do you coin to nurture that

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in our role as educators?
Yesterday we had an open day

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here at school and we had a
panel of student ambassadors

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from our school.
You speak to the visitor

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visiting families.
I'm thinking and I, as I said

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this to them, to the families
visiting as well.

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But as an educator, I'm super
proud of our school.

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I can talk to you about our
philosophy.

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I can talk to you about our
pedagogy.

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I can talk about the vision and
mission and that this drives

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everything that we do.
It's even more powerful if we

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allow students in our school
speak to you, answer your

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questions because they have not
been trained to say anything.

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They don't have a script.
They will answer from their

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guts.
They will.

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You'll ask a question they're
not prepared for and they will

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answer.
And they got questions like

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this.
So how do you know?

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They said, you know, how do you
know that your voice matters?

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And listening to our students
help me understand, of course,

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that our mission drives the
decisions.

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It drives our pedagogy.
And I can see the evidence of

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that when I listen to the
learners, because they talk

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about how they are allowed to
have their own opinion, how they

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are allowed to express
themselves without fear of being

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judged, how they are allowed to
even fumble with their ideas in

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that safe space where nobody's
going to.

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They're not laughed at.
They're not told by the teacher

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that no, this is not, you know,
that's not what the book says

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because we don't care about
that.

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We care about people being able
to reflect.

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And in this panel, we had, we
had students from grade 4, we

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had students from grade seven,
grade nine, grade 11, and we had

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an alumni.
And they all said the same

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thing, that they felt that this
was one of the things that they

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felt was unique about this
school and they had experience

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from other schools.
They had been in non IB schools

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before.
So they drew parallels between

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other ways of approaching
learning and the way we approach

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learning here.
And of course we recognize that

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International School of Polonia
is not unique.

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An IB school will do this.
Many schools around the world

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that are not IB schools will do
this.

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My hope would be that every
school would do this.

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All curriculous.
That would be phenomenal.

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I think then we would have a
greater impact.

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And that must have been a a
great sense of pride for you and

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the team to to witness that.
I mean, a lot of schools talk

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about or struggle with the
concept of how do they measure

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their mission or progress
towards fulfilling their

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mission.
I mean, that's something you

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just a wonderful example right
there of, of bringing it to

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life.
All right, So if we talk now a

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little bit more specifically
about leadership, how, how what

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have you learned about leading
schools through change and times

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of global uncertainty?
How is that shaped what you do

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and how you do it I.
Read a book this summer about

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leadership, about authentic
leadership and a colleague gave

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it to me and told me, Annika, I
think you will like this book

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because I think you will
recognise yourself in it.

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And I thought that was, that was
a very nice thing to hear before

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I, before I read the book,
because somebody could have

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given you a book and said, I
think you need to read this

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because I think you need to
learn something.

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You could say you're not doing
something, you're not doing

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well.
So of course it was, it was a

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very nice way of being given a
book to read about leadership.

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And I, I did and I did recognize
it.

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And I think this is maybe
whether it's was conscious or

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not conscious, but being
authentic I think is something

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that I have brought with me
since I was in school myself.

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And I found school to be a
challenging place to be.

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I found people to be difficult
to trust.

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I'm talking about my peers.
When I was in middle and high

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school, I felt there was a lot
of pressure and I did not know

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how to navigate that.
And with the help of my family,

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I developed the sense of you
just have to be you.

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You cannot be anyone else but
yourself, whether people like

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that or not, kind of has to be
secondary because unless you're

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true, unless you are honest
about who you are, honest about

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what you know and what you don't
know, then you cannot be an

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authentic individual.
So I believe and I hope that I

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have brought that with me all
through my leadership career.

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And the more I read about, of
course, the more I've studied

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leadership, the more I've read
about leadership, the more the,

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the I might choose literature
that supports that.

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But it also helps me helps me
feel comfortable that this is

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this is an important element of
leadership.

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There are so many nuances to
being a leader and I can, you

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know, choose to talk about so
many things, but this about

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authenticity and daring to be
vulnerable has been two elements

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that I have appreciated and
believe that I am leading kind

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of through authenticity.
Well.

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It makes it almost impossible to
develop those close trusting

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relationships unless you are
authentic and transparent and

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vulnerable, especially with with
young people, because they can,

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they will immediately pick up on
the fact that if it's you know,

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if you're not acting and, and
you know, if your words don't

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00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:02,600
match your actions in the most
basic sense, then you know they

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will sniff that out very, very
quickly.

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Definitely, definitely.
So if you could redesign the

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idea of school from scratch,
what are some of the things you

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would keep?
What are some of the things that

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00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,839
you would let go of what?
What are some of the things you

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00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:22,960
might add?
I think in then in my ideal

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world, it would be very or my
ideal school, it would become

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difficult to combine adults and
children in time and space.

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00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:40,360
And when I say that, because I
recognize that when we are, we

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are working, meaning so the
educators and the institution,

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they need to also be able to
balance their life outside of

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school with life inside of
school.

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So working hours are important
and they do not necessarily I

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00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:00,560
match the ideal scenario for
learners because their hours

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ideally might have been
different, especially when you

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talk about teenagers, I think
would have been great for

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00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,520
teenagers to have a different,
you know, a different schedule

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00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,880
coming to school at a different
time of the day, for example.

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But that's so freeing ourselves
from time and space is hard, but

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more flexibility in time and
space if we manage to construct

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something that's tailored more
to the different ages.

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I work in a continuum school
than we have one schedule, of

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course, an hour for some that
works really well for others.

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00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,360
I think that schedule would have
worked better if it wasn't so,

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you know, if it wasn't one side
fits all these ages, but then

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again, it also has to fit the
adults.

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So I recognize there are things
that you want to do that you

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think ideally and
philosophically this would work

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00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:48,400
really well in a say in a
teenage scenario with middle and

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high school students, but then
some another timing works better

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for for young children.
So my ideal is not always what

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we should strive for either
though.

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But I think in school in
general, having, I've of course

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been educated myself in a non IB
context, now being in an IB

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education setting, having seen
other curriculars and worked in

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other schools.
I, you introduced me also as a

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passionate IB educator and I am
passionate about the IB

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education.
I think philosophically it's a

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great program.
There are lots of things that we

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need to look at developing
further in the IB as well.

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But the idea is brilliant and
there are some, there are other

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educational programs like the
Montessori philosophy for

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example, which is also
brilliant.

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Radio Emilia thinking, I am here
in Italy and the radio approach

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to to self-directed learning is,
is phenomenal.

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00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:55,360
So I think in school in general,
broader than the International

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School context and broader than
the IB world.

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00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:03,440
I would definitely hope that.
Most national programs would

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00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,000
change.
I think that's where we can have

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an even bigger impact if
national programs move away from

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the traditional schooling that
we recognize from kind of

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00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:19,040
decades and decades and say
hundreds, say at least maybe 200

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years, to a more authentic
student centered learning

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environment where experiential
learning and contextualized

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learning is kind of driving the
the pedagogy.

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00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:37,800
If that was kind of a global
landscape, I think education as

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a tool and a powerful tool to
change the world would become

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00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,120
more impactful.
Yeah, and even going back to

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00:20:44,120 --> 00:20:47,360
your the beginning of our
conversation when we were

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00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:51,000
talking about cultural
differences, even the concept of

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00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:56,880
schooling is really quite rigid
and very similar regardless of

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00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,600
cultural considerations.
You know, it, it looks very much

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00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:05,040
the same in Australia as it does
in Norway, as it does in the UK,

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00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:09,200
as it does in the Middle East.
Regardless of the, you know,

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00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:13,000
sometimes very significant
cultural differences or sleep

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00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,440
patterns or work days or
anything in that in these

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00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,360
different parts of the world.
Yet our our school systems are

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00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:25,200
just picked up and and and
plunged in and and replicated in

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00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,240
that way.
I think a lot, I think a lot of

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00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,400
countries think about the, the,
you know, higher education

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00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:37,240
sector as the, as kind of the
measure for how education lower,

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lower down the ages needs to be.
But I do believe that the also

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00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:46,400
higher education has proven that
they are open, you know, they

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00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,120
are admitting students who have
had another education path.

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So I would say we shouldn't use
that as an excuse for not

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changing our systems because I
believe that they, although

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00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,680
university and college education
might not have changed

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00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:06,280
significantly from the outset, I
do think that generally there is

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00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,040
a much higher acceptance to
admit to, to accept students to

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00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,920
higher education who have had a
completely different education

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00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,600
path in their younger years.
So I think we should really dare

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00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,160
to revolutionize the way we
approach learning for younger

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00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,360
children.
The point would be that they are

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00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,800
equipped with the tools that
they need, the skills that they

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need to have to be successful
individuals.

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00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:31,000
And everybody shouldn't go to
university and college either

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because the world needs more
than academics.

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00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,280
We need doers, we need
academics.

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00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,800
I'm not saying that we don't,
but we need a combination of of

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thinkers and doers.
And 100%, yeah, 100%.

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00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:50,920
So look finally, just to to wrap
things up, what gives you hope

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00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,960
right now when you think about
the future of education and the

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00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,880
next generation of learners?
I think every morning I welcome

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00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:03,840
our learners outside our gates
and seeing the bright, beautiful

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00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:08,400
faces of young people who have
hope in their own eyes, that

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00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,480
gives me hope.
And the good thing is that when

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00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,760
when we talk in, you know,
depending on what conversations

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00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,800
we have today, that can be quite
depressing.

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00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,760
They can be quite bleach because
the world is very close to us in

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00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,640
many ways and then yet very far
away in other ways.

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00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:29,280
But we are Privy to a lot of
information that can be heavy to

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00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,840
carry it.
It can seem like a heavy burden

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00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,480
and we think, how can you know,
how can we possibly be hopeful

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00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:40,680
when when things seem so, so
terrible around the world?

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00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,920
But then you see young people
growing up and they need to,

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00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,400
they need to be hopeful.
They are, they play, they have

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00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,840
fun.
Life is still good in many, many

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00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,280
places.
And in many places where life is

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00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,160
not good, children still have
hope.

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00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:01,160
And that gives me hope as well.
So the going back to what I

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00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:05,760
initially said, if we can manage
to help every single individual

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00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,240
or every child in our education
institutions feel that they

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00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:13,400
matter, that gives me hope
because if they matter, they can

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00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:14,920
impact the change.
Wonderful.

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00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,920
Well, that seems like a great
place to, to leave things.

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00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,560
So thank you so much for your
time today, Yaneko.

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00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,480
I really enjoyed chatting with
you and and thanks so much for

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00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,800
sharing your your thoughts.
Kevin, it was a pleasure to be

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00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,320
invited.
Thank you very much for having

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00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,320
me here today.
Thank you.

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00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:35,960
Thanks so much for listening to
the episode.

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00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,200
If you enjoyed this
conversation, don't forget to

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00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,640
subscribe, like, follow,
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401
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,880
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402
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:48,760
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00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,680
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