Celeste Bolin & Louie DePhillips

0:05 Welcome to the Leadership Passport. I'm excited to welcome my special guest today, Celeste Bolin and Louis De Phillips. Celeste is Executive Director of 1 Stone, a student driven non profit in Boise, ID that includes the Lab School, an innovative high school centred on agency, hands on learning and personal growth. Previously, she served as Director of the Lab School for five years, helping to shape its learner centred design and culture. Celeste holds ABS in chemistry from Whitman College and a PhD in neurotoxicology from the University of Montana, followed by postdoctoral fellowships at the Korean Institute in Paris and Boise State University. Their scientific career includes peer reviewed publications, international presentations, and grant funded research.

0:46 Now in her 9th year as a leader at One Stone, she drives the organization's growth framework, a skills based model focused on adaptability, leadership and real world problem solving, and leads R&D efforts to continuously improve student driven learning environments. Louis is in his fourth year as a student at One Stone with plans to graduate this year. In his free time, he enjoys exploring and pushing the boundaries of science and technology, currently focusing on hydrogen engines, a project he dedicated over a year of research and development to. Alongside his engineering pursuits, Louis enjoys playing music, spending time outdoors, and climbing. Passionate about design, he's been using Blender and open source 3D modelling software for about 5 years, integrating into many of his projects.

1:28 Louis has served in One Stone's Board of Directors for the past two years as a member of the Development Committee. Perhaps there might be 3 years now. Louis, so welcome to the both of you. Yeah, yeah. And I'm now on the audit committee. Fantastic. Well, look, I'm so happy to have you. I'm looking forward to our chat today. So my first question, I guess I'd like to start with a bit of context and background. So, Louis, for people that aren't familiar with One Stone and what it's all about and what it looks like, how do you describe it to people who've never heard of it before and know nothing about? It I would say this is kind of a hard one. It's a pretty loaded question to approach. I it's very different both educationally and just like the day-to-day flow. I generally try to avoid the buzzwords that go along with one stone such as like no grades or tests because I just, I just think it gets kind of dull.

2:24 I usually rap back to passion driven learning. I think passion and curiosity kind of drives everything we do at one stone. And I usually give them like a little, I guess just description of like an experience I've been a part of in the past that kind of shows just like 1 little facet of what my day is like. And I find that that works fairly well. OK. And did you want to share one of those with us now to get a give us a bit of? A flavor for sure. Yeah, let's see, last year we do.

3:06 We have design lab, which if you're unfamiliar, it's split into three groups. There's X labbers who are the youngest students. They get a lot more coach like just coaching. And then there's D lab, which is second and third year students and they get a little less coaching. And then there's Y Lab, which I'm now in and it's you're not in a group and it's just a single project that you yourself are working on. And last year during D Lab, I was partnered with Tree Fort, which is a local organization that they host like all the shows in downtown Boise. They host the annual like massive music festival that takes over the entire downtown of Boise. And I was partnered with them and we ended up making a compost creature and kind of helping them with their new composting system because they're trying to go completely green. And we got a lot of good feedback. We implemented at Tree Fort and now this next year in Wild Lab, I'm continuing that project, which is really a really cool opportunity.

4:26 I'm going to try to build like 5 more and really expand upon last year's prototype because that's really kind of what it was. But yeah. Sounds like a a wonderful project, Celeste. Is there a particular problem in education that one Stone is trying to solve? That. Yeah. I love this question. I love that you asked it. Thank you. Simple. Yeah. Students don't have voice in their own education, at least not in education systems that I grew up in. And then I have been, you know, mostly aware of as the majority in the United States, students are told when to show up, what to do, what success looks like. And then all the metrics of if they succeeded or if they grew or designed by somebody else, they're evaluated by somebody else. And then they're just like a recipient of that, that assessment.

5:19 I think that lack of voice and choice, really student agency is fundamental to where students feel disillusioned. I think it's where the thought that education isn't for me, or even worse, I don't have the skills or the ability to advance myself and education really comes from. There's not enough asking students, who are you? What do you enjoy doing? What are you curious about? I love that Louis brought that up. And then what would you like to try and giving students the opportunity to do that in multiple different contexts. So the student agency, where does their opinions and their like beliefs and desires come into this?

6:03 So where, where does that what, what does that look and feel like on a on a day-to-day basis? What can you share? Some examples? Some practical examples of what that looks like? Sure. I think a fun example that is happening right now is we're in something called deep dives. So Louis did a great job talking about our human centered design thinking. We follow the Stanford D School sort of empathy based design pathway, although we have our own interpretation of it. The students helped to build. We also have these like thematic areas that are chosen and developed by students. And sometimes students have such like abilities and passion and leadership skills that they run them themselves.

6:45 So Louis and another student are actually right now running a four day. Actually, that is that's Ross and early, but I thought you were. Helping Louis. No, this coming term I'm doing a 10 week experience. That's. What I'm thinking about, OK, thank you. Will you tell us about that 10 week experience that you're doing, Louis? Thank you. I apologize for mixing it up. So I've been fairly familiar with Blender. I've done it as like a job. And Michael, the director of 1 Stone, really wanted me to, like, share those skills because they're really, they're so good for, like, prototyping and it's just such a versatile tool.

7:27 And he really wanted me to, like, find a way to share that with some of the school before I go off and graduate. And we came up with the idea of a class. So this term, I'm going to be putting together a curriculum pretty soon here, probably tonight, honestly. But yeah, I'm going to be building it out and teaching, hopefully a pretty good group of kids. Blender. So there's multiple examples. Thanks Louis and thanks for correcting me. We do currently have a like a woodworking and design four day experience that two other students are running in our foundry, our makerspace and then Louis is going to run. I mean, truly Louis will lead this.

8:08 Coaches will be helpful. Like you mentioned, Michael, the director of the lab school will help with anything that Louis needs. Clearly, Louis is not going to be the only one assessing students. We have our own growth framework for assessment of student growth. He's going to have a coach, adult coach is helping him. We kind of call it like bumpers on the bowling alley. But just like he just described in terms of the design of the 10 weeks and working with the students where they're at, that's going to come from Louis with a lot of support. Those are great, like day-to-day examples of student leadership. And then beyond that, it goes all the way to our governance. I mean, Louis is on our One Storm board of directors. This is his third year. He's a voting member. And in fact, the students have majority vote for anything that passes through the board.

8:53 So that was going to be my next question. I'm really interested to find out a bit more about that and how that works. Can you tell me a bit more, Louis, about your experience on the board and you know the kinds of things that you do and, and how you feel about having that kind of say in the direction and what goes on in your school? Yeah, for sure. It's such a cool opportunity. I really, it's like it's been hitting me the longer I've been on the board how really different this is and how like innovative and just really, really cool opportunity. But I would say, As for my time, I mean, one thing that has like challenged me is realizing that I do have, it's like a completely level playing field. When I first entered the board, there were so many older students that I looked up to, super, super cool adults on the board that I also looked up to.

9:55 And it was like it was hard for me to understand the fact that I had just my words, had just did the same amount of weight, same with my vote. And there was nothing once or the board specifically did to like, make me scared of that or like a little bit wary. But they kind of held my hand the whole time. It just took me a while to gain that kind of confidence boost to finally step up and fully use my voice. But yeah. And, and has there been anything, what's been the most particularly challenging part of being on the board? I wouldn't say there's anything like challenging.

10:35 I mean there's like hard decisions that come through. But yeah, I'd say overall it's pretty smooth sailing. I. Yeah. So Celeste, I wonder, you know, the kind of model that you're describing and it seems like adults giving up a lot of control and handing that back to the kids. Is that something that is is challenging in that space for some of the adults to to maintain that and kind of perhaps resist that urge to try and bring things back in under their control? Absolutely, absolutely. Well, and I think I'm going to directly speak to the way you phrase that because I do think that that can be an impression of a teacher educator mindset that you are some sort of conductor, grandmaster, like controller of a situation or master of ceremonies, whatever you want to call it.

11:31 Like you're like you said, you are in charge and it is your responsibility to make this work. It takes a fundamental shift in mindset because at one stone that is not the case. And it's not just that. Like I'm handing all control to Louis. I wonder, Louis, if are there any areas of the school that you wish they would push the boundaries a bit further? You know that it's already already in a very unique and innovative place. Is there any way you wish? Hey, we should really try this. Push this out a bit further, see where this goes. That's a tricky one because I would say not really I I know the limitations in which like a school can run, especially one that's already running with this little already. I I might speak to like the leadership team last year, Celeste, I think.

12:37 Well, let me explain this actually. We last year, a student, a, a group of students actually pushed for like a team, a leadership team. I kind of like to think of it as like a operational board for one stone. And I think it kind of fell through when the leading members graduated and stuff. But I mean, I think that is like one key thing that I think we could and could probably do, honestly, we definitely could do. But yeah. Yeah. So I think what Louie's talking about is we have our one stone board of directors, which is the governing body of the nonprofit, which includes the Lab School.

13:25 The Lab School itself has infinite possibilities for student leadership. And so there was a group of students that decided I think this should be more formalized, like a student leadership within the Lab School. And I love how Louie put it. It's like operational. It's not at the government governance level. And it was a great prototype. I think they were trying to meet like once a month and talk about all sorts of things like what's our cell phone policy to what does it look like for students leaving campus? Like very operational things that the board doesn't discusses because that's operational. And I'm collecting lots of feedback from all the students.

14:06 And it was a really great prototype. But like Louis said, I think that they had the challenge of any leadership that was a group of students of being like, what is our direction? What's the execution? You know, what's the timeline? And then if some of the like drivers of the group graduated, which they did all right, who picks it up and then drives it? And I couldn't agree with Louis Moore. Like there's a lot of possibilities for that. But the adults in the building, like, I'm not going to go to the students and say I've arranged a student leadership team. That's, that's not one stone. They've got to come. It's got to come from within, right? And then we want to work with the students because otherwise it is more of us feeling like we have power over or executing some sort of positionality.

14:52 That's what I was talking about before. You asked what's it like for adults to give up control. And I said, well, they've got to fully reframe the mindset of this is a collaborative environment. The students and the coaches, that's what we call the adults in the building are working together to design and prototype all sorts of different educational experiences. We have a beautiful framework. This is 24 skills that were growing at one stone, 21st century durable skills competencies, whatever you want to call them, include management, ownership, leadership, mathematical application, information literacy. That is our framework that we can wrap around any sort of experience, but the experience inherently is collaborative with the students. There shouldn't be anything we're doing in this building that a student isn't directly like involved in, in the either like the area of interest or is intimately involved in. What's the scope of this experience going to be? So in that collaborative environment, it requires A humility and sort of a ability for an educator to recognize maybe their own ego or identity in education and question if it has to be that they're an expert or if it can be that they're a key coach, mentor, collaborator with a student where everybody benefits from the relationship.

16:18 And it's not to say we don't get experienced experts in here. Doctor Gunther just did an incredible blood chemistry experience. Next level. It was like forensics and blood chemistry. They learned some phlebotomy. Wonderful, right? And it's not like the students knew that level of detail, but students are like, we love medicine. We love understanding like the art biologies at a molecular level. And we really want to know like, how does this even work in forensics or different fields? That's what the students would say. And we'll bring in an expert to be like, OK, we're going to go deep with you. And that's where I first started with students with my background in neurotoxicology. I did a lot of neuroscience and genetics work with the students.

16:58 They still do from time to time, but that's that's where you come and you say, oh, well, I have this tool kit. I have these great toys that we can play with. Let's do it together. But there's not a place where I or Doctor Gunther isn't going to say, OK, and now here's your test to make sure you were really listening to me. Doesn't work like that. It doesn't. It doesn't really matter what matters. Were the students curious, excited? Do they invest in something and learn a piece that maybe they would want to go further with? So what's interesting, when we vet adults, the first they send in resumes and cover letters and all of that. We read that, adults read that, and then we do like an initial meeting or phone call that's adults. It's usually me and the director of operations very next time. So once the person comes in for an interview, they interview with students and students are some of the best interviewers in the world.

17:49 Really, really committed to knowing who this person is and if they believe in and want to work with students. I remember my interview almost 10 years ago with two students, and I was blown away by both the sincerity as well as like, the humility and vulnerability it required of me. And so right in that moment, I think it's very telling of is this person going to be a fit to work with students because it's going to be a different relationship perhaps than they've ever had before. And I agree with you, students ask the best questions as a, as a candidate, as I've gone through different selection processes over the years, That's one of the ones that I, I look forward to the most because kids, the younger they are as well, have no filter either.

18:35 So you get a whole range of questions from, you know, what did you have for breakfast to, you know, what are you doing here, which is not a lot of people think about why, why are you here? Why, why have you come to our school? Why have you applied for this job and not a lot of people have really thought deeply about that and the reasons. So you were talking a little bit more, you're sharing some examples there of some of those workshops and programs. So what evidence does matter most when you're trying to define success? What does that look like? If we're talking now about sort of outcomes and next steps and post a kind of schooling things, what, what does that evidence and success look like?

19:22 Well, I'll give my take on it and then I think it would be helpful to hear Louis talk about what how he reflects on his growth transcript. So I said we have these 24 durable skills and then they feed into something called a growth transcript, which measures growth over time. And the way that the the growth is measured is both in students reflection. Well, I need to back up student setting goals on how they want to grow in that particular area. Say it's, you know, management what them deciding what that evidence is going to look like and knowing our rubric for you know what, how are you applying it and what context? How much agency do you have? And then coaches.

20:03 Telling students, OK, we're going to be assessed on these different areas for these different pieces of the experience. These were your goals and them giving feedback. And then again, students continually interacting and looking holistically at their growth transcript with their mentors. Every student's paired with a mentor for their whole time and saying I really feel like my management's grown more than that. I do feel like that we call ready for the college and career success that success is very important, not just ready, ready to succeed actualizing. So there's this back and forth and the way that the growth transcript is fed is both by students goals, students reflections and then coaches assessing based on the students goals and reflections and then a refinement of the students.

20:48 So they leave with this collateral, this growth transcript, as well as an experience transcript that just lists out everything they did that they can either take to. I just submitted one last night for a Harvard summer program for a student that's going into her while she's in her second year. So it's something that's collateral for internships, competitive programs along the way, and then something that students graduate with that can again be used for college applications. It's always send to colleges. We send their growth transcript, their experience transcript, letters of recommendation. That's normal for any colleges. And then if they want it, we have some written feedback, but typically colleges don't want it. The growth transcript is enough and it can also be used for apprentices or any sort of career connected learning as well. So I think it'd be interesting.

21:36 Louis, what, how do you think you would use your growth transcript or what? What builds it and how do you use it? I mean, As for using my growth transcript, obviously all the things you just mentioned like college and even I guess you could even say like jobs and stuff. But As for like my definition of success, I think it's being able to use the tools that I've gained like on the growth transcript in a effective way. I also, I think it's really important to be able to ask for help, build support systems and work through failure and constructive way as well. I think it's also about having the tools and confidence to really pursue what you care about and do it shamelessly and having the resilience and determination to do so no matter like what struggles you face.

22:35 And just having yeah, determination and Dr. yeah. Just great skills for life, aren't they? Great advice. So if we talk a little bit maybe about transferable lessons, because a lot of people may be listening to this and and certainly my own experience in my work in schools, very traditional and and typically perhaps Celeste, how you and I experience school perhaps. What are some small shifts you think traditional schools could make tomorrow? What would be some if they wanted to put more agency back in the hands of kids, give up some of that control? What are some practical, easy, first quick steps? So we're really lucky to work with some variety of schools across the nation.

23:26 There's seven schools using a version of the growth transcript that's been, you know, tailored for that school. And many of them are in more traditional contexts. And so I think the piece, you know, they're definitely diving in a little bit deeper. But if I were to back it up, even for like, what's one thing a school could do that's not even going to think about competencies or durable skills assessment, just finding more opportunities to ask students about their experience in the school. And then this is key. Can't just ask. You can't just go into the void making even the smallest bit of action on that. And I know that sounds, you know, sort of ridiculous. I do think all educators check in with students and they all have, you have to have such a heart and soul for student growth to be an educator.

24:16 I have such supreme respect. So I think that happens a lot. But the action of figuring out one thing you could do based on that student feedback where they really felt heard, I think that's when in like the most small fundamental steps. And then the second one, and this is when I talk about a lot, where could you bring in real world experiences? Like Louis was just talking about working with Tree Fort Music Fest, our local music festival, which is awesome. And Louis is a musician and so it's so great. It's such a tie together of so many things. Wherever your education is, you're surrounded by professionals. You, you live in a community of, you know, the parents are professionals. Your, your community is full of professionals. Where can you bring in other people to interact with high school students, even to just give you fodder for an idea of a problem or a skill that's very specific to a niche of a of a different like, you know, sector of business or whatever it is?

25:13 How could you bring in that relevant experience in any way, even if it's just some sort of simulation or I don't know, or even just like shadowing or interviews. Any little piece like that is so is so key. You know, I'm like, you know, when Louis was asked one of his most like impactful or one stone specific experiences, he talked about, you know, building this compost monster, which is awesome. I saw it. That was real. The compost monster was used at this massive music festival that's got 20,000 plus people. It wasn't a theoretical thing. He could go and see the thing he designed with his team being used and now he's doing it again. That was not a school assignment, right? That was a real thing.

25:56 Real people were counting on Louis that weren't in this building to follow through on that project. That brings a lot of ownership and like sense of worth to your work. Like where could you do that in your education system, even in a little bit? So that question to you, Celeste was about sort of what can the adults in a space do? My question to you, Louis, let's say if the adults are not kind of getting on board, what could students do? What could young people do in a school to perhaps push things along and then encourage the adults in their space to take some steps in this direction?

26:37 I think stepping up and stepping into like even the smallest little leadership roles or just really pushing and showing that they are capable of ownership and agency over what they are doing. And I think that as like a method to almost prove and like vet themselves for the teachers. I I don't know if that makes sense, but just showing that we are more capable than people might seem to think. But yeah, I love that, Louis, like, take a risk to show that you could lead something, you know, whether asked or not. That's excellent advice. I've just got some final questions now for both of you to kind of wrap things up.

27:20 So what's your favorite book or movie and why? You got one, Louis. You tell me. If you have one, you should go first. I'm trying to. I have a lot now. I, I think a book that I've come back to many times and I am totally a sucker for the hero's journey is Siddhartha by Hermann Hess. I don't know if you know that book, Louis, It's it's old, but the idea of just humans being able to conquer big like big ambitious goals and what it takes like the internal work and that internal like hero's journey to get through what seems like insurmountable obstacles, whether they're, you know, societal or the ones you put on yourself. I think consistently, you know, books like that I will come back to every four years and I'm going to add another one. And now I'm cheating.

28:14 Another one I come back to often is the Four agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz, and I'm actually reading again the four agreements with students. I just started it a couple of months ago. Reminders just of how much your word matters, not to take things personally, not to make assumptions, and to always do your best. Those sorts of fundamental ideas of how you can just get your mindset around again, like what seems like insurmountable challenges or problems or doing hard things really fuels me. One stone's a perfect place for me as a human. I like the edges of experience and the edge of edges of experience that make humanity or humankind more we.

28:58 We use the word we have a value here of doing good. Make them like better. Make us all better as humans and us as a society better. That's what truly I think. I didn't know one stone was going to give me a like a sandbox for with some of the most incredible humans in the world, that being young people. And so I'm constantly like trying to remember there's going to be the ups and downs. And these are the things that you can in your own mindset, like remind yourself of to, to ride the waves, because it's not always easy to do hard, big things like having a school that students are driving from the entirety of the experience.

29:39 Louis. You've settled on none. I think so. This was actually a one stone community read book. I'm not sure how long ago. I really like educated. I'm not sure if you've heard of it, but it is about this woman. She grew up in like a kind of a very religious and secluded family and endured like really harsh living conditions. Her parents wouldn't let her go to school and it kind of just went over her journey growing up in that community and then eventually breaking free and pursuing education. I thought it was just really quite inspiring and it was just a very, very interesting and good read, OK. A leader, past or present, that you admire. Well, I've got mine and she's just still so much on my mind. Jane Goodall we do something called living in beta here with all of our students.

30:45 Beta being they're always beta testing your life and I always work with the graduates. So I've met with them a few times and we'll continue meeting in January to find their why their why statement. And as we do that, I asked them same question leader, who you look up to, don't have to know them. What's their why? And then I'm always trying to you know, we we do the same work as a students. And the one I always come back to is like, fundamentally living in her why? And really believing in humans to do good for the planet and for, you know, themselves as Jane Goodall. And man, so so sad of her passing, but her legacy is one that lives on forever for me. Louis, this is a difficult one.

31:31 I'm going to kind of bounce back on what Celeste said during that living and beta time. We also went over the why of Mr. Rogers. I I watched his. I get, I think it was a documentary a few years back. I don't fully remember it now, but and I didn't fully grow up on Mr. Rogers either. I just think his his whole, I guess, like driving mission was just very powerful and influential. OK. And then final question, best piece of advice you've ever received? I, mine's from my mother, so Christy Bolin, since I was a very little girl, would always say don't sweat the small stuff. Celeste, don't sweat the small stuff. And I, I, I lean on that constantly because I do think, you know, there are big things.

32:27 There are, you know, friends, family, health, you know, those are really big things. But the other things are probably, they're probably smaller and stressing out about it is, is not going to help anything. So from my mother, don't sweat the small stuff. Great advice. I don't have like a quote from a specific person. It's just kind of what I've been told over the course of my life. And I'm also, I'm not quoting Nike. I'm it's like just do it. I am very like perfectionistic over pretty much everything that I do. And that kind of inhibits my progress on a lot of projects. And knowing that just like just take that step, just like cut that piece of wood.

33:12 If you mess up, you can just buy a new one if it comes down to it or work with it and fix it. Yeah, just it kind of as it's helped me table my perfectionism and make a lot more progress than I think I would have without it. Great advice. Because at the end of the day, there's very few things in the world that are unfixable. You know, you make a mistake and then you just get on with it. And we spend an awful lot of time, like you mentioned, Celeste, worrying about stuff that that doesn't need to be worried about because we can just get on with it at the end of the day. Well, look, thank you so much for both of your time today. I really, really appreciate it. I really enjoyed chatting with both of you and hearing about some of the great stuff that's going on at One Stone.

33:55 Thank you so much. Thank you, Kevin. This was really fun. Thanks for the great questions. Thanks so much for listening to the episode. If you enjoyed this conversation, don't forget to subscribe, like, follow, et cetera. Drop a comment below to let me know anything you'd like covered in upcoming episodes or suggestions for future guests. You can also connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn.