Jen Buchanan

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Welcome to the Leadership
Passport.

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I'm excited to welcome my guest
today, Jen Buchanan.

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Welcome, Jen.
Thank you so much for having me

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on today, Kevin.
I'm truly looking forward to our

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conversation today.
Yeah, me too.

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I'm really, really looking
forward to it.

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So I wonder if we can start off
tell us a bit about yourself,

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your, your education journey so
far and the current work that

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you're doing, which is which is
fascinating.

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Goodness, I've been in education
now for nearly three decades,

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which is I find that hard to
believe.

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It has been an amazing
experience and and truly has led

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me around the world significant
parts of that journey of being

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in international schools
everywhere from Saudi Arabia to

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Indonesia and now currently we
think Global School.

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So this is my second term we
think global school.

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I was an educator with them back
in 2016.

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Seventeen left for some time and
have come back into the role.

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In came back into the role in
2025 as the principal.

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Fantastic.
And now some people might know,

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many people might not know a
little bit about Think Global

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School, which has a very
different model.

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So I wonder if you can kind of
run us through what that looks

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like?
At its most simplest Think

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Global School is an
international travelling

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boarding school.
So every term we we move to a

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different location. 4 terms a
year, 4 different countries, 4

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very different experiences on
the ground.

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And our curriculum model is one
of place based learning.

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And in each country we, we
explore a driving question with

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our young people and to find
ourselves completely immersed in

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the the country and the culture
that we're in.

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So it's a, it's a very
interesting model, yeah.

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And so how many, what are the
kind of ages of students that

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you have and how many students
do you have as a part of this

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model?
Yeah, great question.

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We are a fully accredited high
school, AUS accredited high

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school for students in grade 11
and grade 12.

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We were a three-year program.
We've just moved to a two year

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program.
So essentially what we have is

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15 students will come in each
year and we graduate 15

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students.
So at any one time, there's

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thirty of us on the ground and
we have a team of educators that

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travel as well.
OK, so what's the what's the

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hardest assumption about
education that think is trying

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to sort of actively challenge
what what is it trying to do

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different and why?
Yeah, it's, that's again another

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interesting question.
We say that we're a school for

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the bravely curious.
It's definitely not a model for

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every young person because you
have to be truly adaptable,

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resilient, jumping on a plane
every, every term to go and live

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in a place that is unfamiliar
requires a definite sort of

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disposition and ability to be
able to adapt and respond in

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these environments.
And young people, I would say

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not only bravely curious, but
have a real want to be immersed

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in a world and a deep
understanding and ethical

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understanding of different
cultures and people.

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So the learning really does
nurture that, that deep and

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understanding of what sometimes
sometimes can appear to be quite

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a complex world.
And so having that experience on

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the ground, not only are our
young people experiencing

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learning in different contexts,
our cohort of students are also

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from all over the world.
We have, well, I think currently

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in our thirty students, we have
30 different nationalities

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represented.
So they are an extremely diverse

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population as well.
And you mentioned this before,

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you've recently moved from like
a three-year to a two year

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program.
I imagine some things in terms

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of your, you know, the way you
design either learning and other

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elements of what you do changes
over time.

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Is there something that's sort
of embedded in the design of the

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school that you're particularly
proud of?

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And is there anything you think
you're still a challenge is

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still working on it haven't
quite resolved given the kind of

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different model that you follow?
Think the design decision that I

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would say I'm most proud of now
being able to lead this school.

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This is the work of people that
have come before me, is that

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real commitment to global
immersion and is the core

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structure of everything we do.
It's not just an add on.

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So we didn't go ahead and design
A school and then layer a travel

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component on top of it.
The designing started through

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movement, place and culture from
the very beginning.

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So there are those choices shape
everything, how the curriculum

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emerges, how relationships form,
how students see themselves in

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the world.
And with that as well in the

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other design element that I
think often gets missed is that

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the work really only happens
because it is deeply

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collaborative.
Our staff have real autonomy in

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the design of those learning
experiences that respond to the

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place and the context and, and
also the students they have in

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front of them.
As I said, the the student

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population changes quite
significantly each year and you

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have to, as a leader, have a
level of trust in your

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educators.
It is essential in a model like

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this.
You can't centralise every

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decision when literally your
classroom is places around the

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world.
Yeah.

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And I want to dig into that a
little bit more in terms of

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those some of those leadership
skills and dispositions.

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But you mentioned this before, a
sort of global immersion.

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So when you're you're talking
about their learning takes place

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all around the world, how do you
make sure that that deep kind of

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learning takes place as opposed
to kind of educational tourism,

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which, you know, a lot of, you
know, in my experience anyway,

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in international schools,
international field trips feel

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more touristy than than really
deep learning experiences.

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Beautiful question.
Coming into this role as

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principal, one of the most
important things I've noticed is

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the intentionality of the work
and being OK, being comfortable,

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really slowing down and
anchoring our learning in place

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so our students aren't just
passing through these places, as

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you say, with that educational
tourism lens or as observers or

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or as consumers.
Then they're not there to

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collect experiences.
They're engaged.

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They're there to engage in those
real questions, real people,

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real communities.
And when I think about the

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day-to-day at Think Global
School, the end of the school

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day doesn't end at a kind of a
334 o'clock.

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The bell goes, we will raise
home.

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And partly that's because there
really isn't a clear line

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between our school time and
lifetime.

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We are on the ground.
Our students are in community in

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very ordinary and human ways.
You know, they're going to the

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local gym in the evenings,
they're navigating public

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transport, they're finding
places to live, they're learning

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how to exist respectfully in
places that maybe are new to

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them, and they're the moments of
real learning.

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They're practicing their
independence, their social

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awareness, their adaptability in
real time.

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Also another big component of
the program, which is again,

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something we see a lot across
schools all around the world, is

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that commitment to our service
learning.

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And so in each country, we do
have that opportunity to engage

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in in service learning.
But what's key with this serving

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learning service in country is
that the experiences that the

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students have, they take that
home and they carried it forward

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in a project in their own
country.

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So the work is not just a kind
of a one off experience.

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We're in country and we're going
to go and help at the with a

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local organization.
Yes, that is part of it, but

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it's the learning part that then
can be applied into a real world

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context of a project of choice
back in their own home country.

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So there's, yeah, I think
there's a couple of things that

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we have in place to make sure we
don't fall into that kind of eco

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tourism.
And we're just travelling and

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we're definitely not on a
Contiki tour.

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We're there's deep learning
happening on the ground.

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Very good.
Very good SO.

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I'm wondering for, you know,
people that might be struggling

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a little bit to wrap their heads
around exactly what those kind

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of learning experiences look
like.

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I'm wondering if perhaps even
from last term.

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What are some examples?
Run us through what a day or a

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week might look like for
students or staff or for the

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organization.
And it's a really key point that

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you said there for some of our
our learners, because I think

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one of the hardest assumptions
that we tackle as a, as a, as a

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learning environment, as a
school is that we challenge the

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idea that learning needs to be
controlled in order to be

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effective.
So we we don't have traditional

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classrooms.
That's the first thing.

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And people kind of just look at
me curiously and just go, but

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how can you be a school?
We don't have a building, we

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don't have classrooms.
And when you think of

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traditional schooling as well
with timetables and

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predictability and fixed
outcomes and fixed schedules, a

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lot of that is a little bit more
flexible in our environment.

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So if I look at we've just come
out of Mexico and I'll walk you

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through the term and it might
give a bit of a clarity and

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understanding for if any
listeners.

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We're an 8 week term on site.
Our staff arrive a week ahead of

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term and do the prep work.
We, we, we scope out our

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environment, we do what our risk
assessments, we work out where

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our safety zones are, how we're
going to, to operate.

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We go through the the curriculum
and the learning as we spend a

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week of intentionality with just
our staff ahead of our student

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arrivals.
At the same time, our students

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are online and they're doing a
deep dive into the country

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they're about to come into.
They do an online learning week

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before they arrive in country.
Then it's seven weeks on the

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ground, our students arrive and
it is our whirlwind of activity.

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The week is structured around 2
days of our Global Immersion

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modules.
And so our global immersion

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models will have a driving
question contextual to the

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country that we're in.
So in Mexico, we've just done a

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module around activism and the
the arts.

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It's a thriving art scene and
our students were working

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alongside artists and studios
learning about printmaking.

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They collaborated on a mural, so
that was a beautiful piece of

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learning.
And then another group were out

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there studying at No Botany and
immersed in in different

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experiences for for two days a
week and on the ground with

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guest speakers in the field.
So 2, two days of the global

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immersion.
Then we have a model as well

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where students are doing their
personal projects.

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So following a design thinking
framework, the students are

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encouraged to find an area of
passion, something that

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interests them.
If they're new into the school,

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they'll do smaller projects each
a term base.

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They build up that capacity to
really learn independently, to

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have that autonomy of a choice
through smaller projects in

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their first year.
And then in the second year,

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they'll take that project as a
deep dive into a mastery project

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that they follow along for the
full year, resulting in a, they

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do a research piece of an essay
around that.

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They do a capstone at the end of
the year at our symposium and

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they present their learnings and
their findings of their mastery

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project.
Then we also have our whole

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being program.
We have a when we look at our

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young person, in order to
thrive, there has to be

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opportunity to come and just to
spend time in place.

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So we have around the world, it
might be an equivalent to a PhD

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program, a well-being program.
And we have ours uniquely

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designed for the skill set you
need to be able to travel around

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the world.
And then on top of that, there's

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other projects there getting
ready for university

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preparation.
As mentioned earlier, we have

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our service in country
preparation.

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So it's a very rich, it's a very
fast and dynamic program, but

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lots of independence in there.
And then there are a couple of

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moments during the class as well
during the week as well where we

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have explicit teaching because
some of those skills that you

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need for in the field, you need
to have that opportunity to, to

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have that explicit instruction
and learning ahead of time.

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So we do have a traditional
English class and a traditional

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math class as well.
So we can take a deep dive into

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to some of those skills that are
required.

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And I want to come back to some
things you mentioned before

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about leadership and, and
leadership from yourself or

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others.
It looks very different in this

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kind of model and, and wonder if
you can talk a little bit more

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about that coming from a, you
know, I'm assuming a more

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traditional school settings into
this type of school setting

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having to lead in very different
ways.

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I wonder what some of the the
challenges or learning for

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yourself have been?
Oh goodness.

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Many, Kevin.
Many I'm Each term I'm also

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arriving at a place that's
unfamiliar to me.

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In a few days time, I'm jumping
on a flight to Mumbai and our

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school will be there for two
months.

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So India here I come this
Saturday and like our students

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and our staff, I'll also be
navigating different cultural

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norms, new logistics, new
rhythms.

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I think I've repacked and packed
my suitcase about four or five

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times in just trying to
understand what I'm going to

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wear on the ground that is
culturally appropriate and still

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maintains a a sense of
professionalism.

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It is just I go through all of
this myself and what I find in

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country in order to be able to
lead well, I need to take time

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at the beginning of term just to
ground myself.

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So I generally spend a day just
getting to know my environment.

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I'll be checking into an Airbnb
that'll be my home for the next

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two months, get to know my
little area and just ground

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myself ahead of the, the, the
arrival of everyone on the

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ground.
And I found as well, I guess

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just slow down, slow down to
listen, to observe, understand

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who I am with where I am.
And being able to do that, just

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being able to slow down allows
me to arrive and just be fully,

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fully present.
Another big one for for leaders

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out there, You have to be able
to let go of routine or the

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illusion of routine in moving
school like this.

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Routine has to be negotiated
each time we arrive in new

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place.
You can't prepare for every

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variable when your campus
literally shifts every few

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months and not only shifts,
shifts to a completely different

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country somewhere in the world
that you might never have been

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to yourself.
And so we might do a bit of a

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deeper dive into this as well
with some other conversation

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pieces here.
But when we talk about culture

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in schools as well, in order to
have a school that moves so

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much, building that culture is
so imperative to the work, you

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know, shared values, common
language, relationships,

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routines, Because when
everything else is in a kind of

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a state of flux, having that to
come back to is is in is so

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important.
And my find is in this a

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particular role is less about
managing outcomes and more about

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building conditions so people
know how to act when they're

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presented with something
unfamiliar.

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So I guess to conclude all of
that, you know, leading in this

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way can feel, I think what I
would say if there was a word

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that jumps to mind is maybe it
feels more exposed.

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But then again, that's deeply
aligned with what we ask our

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students, learning to live and
learn in unfamiliar places and

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and doing that with a sense of
humility and curiosity.

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And you know, coming back to
some of your, your last comments

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there about providing the, the
grounding or the framework for

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unique or unusual situations
that you, you can't plan for

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everything.
There's perhaps there's no

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precedence or a policy that
governs something that's about

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to, you know, happen.
How do you, how do you build

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that culture?
How do you be intentional to,

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you know, and perhaps you could
share some examples of, you

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00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,000
know, a really unique or tricky
situation that there really

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wasn't a precedent or anything
else, but the, you know, the

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00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:35,840
foundation that you'd blame had
enabled you to sort of tackle it

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as well as you could.
Oh, an example.

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00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:43,560
Well, I've got one.
And again, when you're operating

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outside of traditional
structures, there are definitely

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situations that present that
were unanticipated.

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And what I found in this role is
what matters in those moments is

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not necessarily having the rules
in place.

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00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,440
It's about having the
relationships and shared

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00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,720
understanding that you've built
with your team beforehand.

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00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:12,160
So my first term we fly into to
my own in Botswana and I've

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never been anywhere in Africa.
So it's it's so unfamiliar.

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And I'm stepping into this new
role, building my new team.

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And we're maybe two weeks into
the into the term, a week with

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00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,680
the staff and our students have
just arrived and we head out to

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a little town called Guetta.
It's a 3 hour drive outside of

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00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:34,120
Malone.
And now Malone is already

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00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:35,960
isolated.
We're not in Gavarone.

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So we're in a, we are very
remote at this stage.

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And we're about to go out onto
the salt pans where we're going

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to be sleeping on these salt
pans for the night as evening

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00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,680
kind of falls.
We've just finished a 10K hike

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across the pans and we arrive
where we're going to camp for

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00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:57,640
the night with our students.
And as we arrive into camp, we

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00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,720
realize that our provider has
not turned up with any of the

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00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,640
bedding or adequate, adequate
bedding for our students.

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And the temperatures start
starting to to drop and it's

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00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,880
going to be a, it's going to be
a freezing night exposed on

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00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:15,280
these salt pans.
And so we gathered our students

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00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,200
together, staff and students,
and we had this open

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00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,360
conversation about what the
experience could involved, what

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00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:24,640
was beautiful about it, but also
could what could be hard and

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00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,320
potentially risky.
And we talked through the cold,

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00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,680
the fire, the fatigue, and the
responsibility each of us within

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00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,360
the group would carry.
And rather than imposing like a

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00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:37,080
top down set of instructions,
the students instead took it

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00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:41,760
upon themselves to to organize
that they would take turns to

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00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,240
tend to the fire overnight.
And not because an adult told

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00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,640
them to, but because of that
warmth the group hang and

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00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,560
keeping safe depended on it and
their actions.

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00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,640
You know, they have those direct
and real consequences for

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00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,160
others.
It's not about me, it's about

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00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:57,640
the US.
That sense of collective

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00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:02,680
responsibility and that
experience early on really

338
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,280
reinforced me that transparency
is the key.

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00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,680
We, we didn't pretend in that
moment to have it easy or

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perfectly controlled.
We named the risks, we explained

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00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,000
how we were mitigating them.
We were clear about certain

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00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,520
expectations.
And because of these students

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00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,200
stepped into that responsibility
with maturity and care.

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00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:26,040
And I would say as well, an
experience like this only only

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00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,160
is able to be mitigated again,
because of the the preparation

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00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,720
behind the scenes.
So we do a lot of work in our

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00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:37,040
risk assessments coming together
beforehand as a staff,

348
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,160
understanding what each of our
roles are.

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00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:43,040
We have an incredible team
behind the scenes that research

350
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:47,720
locations and and assess those
risks and plan contingencies.

351
00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:50,880
So it's the invisible work as
well that creates the conditions

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00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,400
for the learning to happen
safely and responsibly even when

353
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things go slightly array.
Yeah, that was a fascinating

354
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,800
example.
You talked a little bit there

355
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:06,680
about building your team.
So what are the kinds of what in

356
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:11,080
terms of the adults, what what
makes a successful educator or

357
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,360
employee at Think Global School?
What are the kinds of things

358
00:20:14,360 --> 00:20:16,880
that you look for that would
make someone successful in this

359
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:23,240
really unique role?
Yeah, it's find people, find us

360
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,520
the right people will seek us
out.

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And we are looking for, for
those staff that are are willing

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00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:34,400
to unlearn.
And I say that what I mean by

363
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:39,080
willing to unlearn is our school
does look very different and it

364
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,720
doesn't have the safety of maybe
some of all the structures that

365
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,480
you see in a regular school.
And it is very demanding.

366
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:49,080
And we are on the ground, it
tends to be 6 days a week when

367
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:50,840
when on site.
So we're looking for those

368
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,520
people that will roll their
sleeves up and and generally

369
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,320
don't see their work as a kind
of a nine to five job.

370
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,880
Sometimes you, you are teaching
all day or you're with the

371
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,440
students, you're front facing
and then you may be on a night

372
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,000
Judy.
And that's for all of us.

373
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,000
Whether you're a new staff
coming in or the principal, we

374
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:15,680
all share that responsibility
and building culture to support

375
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,520
that is at its core and it's
deeply human.

376
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:22,720
It lives in those relationships
and it shows up when our staff

377
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,560
feel seen, when they feel
trusted as professionals, and

378
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,240
when they feel safe enough to
ask the hard questions or admit

379
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:33,040
that something isn't working.
We use shared common language,

380
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:35,800
so when you are having a tough
time, we talk about whether

381
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:37,440
we're above the line or below
the line.

382
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,720
You can broach a conversation
around that because we have a

383
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,800
shared understanding.
We start off our school year

384
00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:50,160
with a staff ROP of staff rite
of passage, where we do a lot of

385
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:54,120
group work in how we
intentionally want to show up

386
00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:56,320
for our young people as we move
through through the year.

387
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,720
And how do we intentionally want
to show up for each other and

388
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,800
support each other in our work
on the ground.

389
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,440
So yeah, I'm going to leave it
there, Yeah.

390
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:10,880
OK, very good.
And just sort of changing focus

391
00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:16,120
for a little bit in, I mean,
schools in general, parents can

392
00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:20,360
sometimes be challenging and it
can be challenging sometimes to

393
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,120
build that trust.
And parents can be, you know,

394
00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:31,160
quite attuned to, to risk or to
what their kids are doing and go

395
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,640
quite often compare that to how
they experience education as a

396
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,200
student, as a child themselves.
Can you talk a little bit about

397
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,800
I, I anticipate some of those
challenges with parents in terms

398
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,120
of you traveling to a new
country.

399
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,560
No one's been there before and
they're trusting you or their

400
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:53,760
kids to to look after them, keep
them safe in this, you know, in

401
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:55,280
this kind of model for two whole
months.

402
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:56,120
What?
What does?

403
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,760
What does that look like?
You're right, our families are

404
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:02,000
trusting us not just with the
academic outcomes of the young

405
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,480
people, but their children as
whole humans.

406
00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:09,960
When our families understand our
values and our decision making

407
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:14,880
processes, they feel aligned
with with the work that we do

408
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,720
and, and not just relying on
reassurance alone.

409
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,680
So even before a student joins
TGS, we have an interview

410
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,080
process that we go through and
we interview both the potential

411
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:31,080
student and the family
independent to each other to

412
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,280
make sure that it's a right fit
for for our entire community.

413
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,400
And that's a really important
start of the journey on the

414
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,640
ground.
We are very innovative what we

415
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:46,720
do but and innovation and risk
is about being clear with what

416
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,560
we will and what we won't
experiment with.

417
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,960
So at every point the safety,
care and ethical

418
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,440
responsibilities of our young
people's are non negotiables.

419
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,040
They're not areas for
innovation.

420
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,600
Innovation lives in how we
design the learning, our

421
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,760
pedagogy, the structures, the
experience the students have.

422
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,000
Because our model looks
different, I think it's

423
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,280
especially important to be
honest about the risk, then

424
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:10,720
present, pretend it doesn't
care.

425
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,600
Sorry, because our model looks
different.

426
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,880
I think it's especially
important that we are honest

427
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,520
about the risk rather than
pretend it doesn't exist.

428
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,640
Absolutely.
Some of the places where we go,

429
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:28,520
there are going to be risks and
we mitigate them by sharing with

430
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:33,160
our families the decisions ahead
of time coming into India and

431
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,760
coming into all our countries.
Actually, we have areas that we

432
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,280
have determined are safe to go
as a solo zone where students

433
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,160
can go to a Cafe by themselves
and go and get a drink and read

434
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,320
a book quietly.
And then we also have a wider

435
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:51,440
area that will deem as our group
zone where students can go and

436
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,840
spend time with their friends.
And that's a wider area.

437
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,200
We're very clear like coming
into India, what is the dress

438
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,840
code, what to pack?
And again it comes, I say the

439
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,360
team behind the scenes.
I couldn't do this job without

440
00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:06,720
them because there is a lot of
work that goes on behind the

441
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:11,720
scenes that makes my work on the
ground super easy once, once we

442
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,720
hit the ground running.
And I'm, I'm just curious you,

443
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,320
you talked about that, that team
behind the scenes, that research

444
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,320
that goes into looking at new
locations and, and what does

445
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,000
that process look like?
What, what do you look for in a

446
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,000
you know, a venue, a location
around the world?

447
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,000
Is your your, your, your next
term?

448
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:39,840
We it's complex.
We try to ensure that we visit a

449
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:41,480
diverse range.
We're not looking for the

450
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,720
comfortable locations.
Some places are more

451
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,600
comfortable, absolutely and some
provide more challenges and can

452
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,800
be a little bit more confronting
with that.

453
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:55,520
It is as well considering the
complexity of the visas and the

454
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,320
passports our students hold.
We have students from all over

455
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,680
the world and some will be
travelling on passports that may

456
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,560
be limited in terms of the visas
they can get.

457
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,880
So to be honest, we often look
at countries as well that allow

458
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:12,240
that flexibility and the ease of
being able to to get a visa to

459
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:17,520
go in and stay there for an
extended period of time as and

460
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,920
then as well we're looking at
countries in that rotation that

461
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,320
provide different climates and
experiences.

462
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,760
So there's so much that goes
into deciding where we're going

463
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,840
to, to visit.
We want to make sure air quality

464
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,400
is fine, that the temperature is
not too hot or the the

465
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,160
temperature if it's cold that
we're adequately prepared for

466
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:36,960
that in terms of the activities
that we're doing.

467
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:42,000
So a balance there from multiple
different considerations to make

468
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,920
sure that it is safe and
engaging and and fun for our

469
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,760
people on the ground.
And if we we talk about the

470
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,840
students for a moment and let's
say once they've become alumni

471
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,040
and that's sort of maybe Fast
forward to the, you know,

472
00:26:54,080 --> 00:27:00,080
242526, what would have come to
some of the, you know, skills or

473
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,360
dispositions or, or competencies
that those young people will

474
00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:07,040
have compared to more
traditional, you know, education

475
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,680
pathways, do you think?
I would hope that they're

476
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,400
comfortable not being the
smartest person in the room and

477
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,680
confident enough to keep
learning anyway.

478
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,640
That they, instead of being the
smartest person in the room,

479
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,320
that they've got the ability to
ask good questions, navigate

480
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,040
unfamiliar situations, take
responsibility for their impact

481
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,720
on other others.
Success would look less like a

482
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:34,720
specific job title, but more
about ethical understanding and

483
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,400
humanity and ability to navigate
our world.

484
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:43,440
I've, I've got this great
example of students, not alumni,

485
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,400
but a current student.
And when I first started, I was

486
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,520
flying back to Australia and I
had to go via Shanghai.

487
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,360
And I'm in the airport trying to
find my gate and probably a

488
00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:57,960
little bit flustered.
And, and next thing I hear my

489
00:27:57,960 --> 00:27:59,880
name being called across the
terminal.

490
00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:04,680
And I look over my shoulder and
there's one of our students and

491
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,480
she's on her way back to India.
And I'm like, what are you doing

492
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:09,800
here?
What are you doing here in

493
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,320
Shanghai airport?
You left 2 days ago and she's

494
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,840
like, oh Jen, my flight got
changed.

495
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,400
I got diverted across to
Amsterdam and then I went to

496
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,560
Shanghai and now I'm on my way
to Singapore.

497
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:24,040
I was like 2 days and she said
yeah, but I've had the best

498
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,040
time.
I ended up in Amsterdam.

499
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,200
I checked myself into a hotel.
I explored the whole city.

500
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,800
I got myself back on this flight
and I just went, Oh my goodness.

501
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,520
Like that's what we want to now
young people, here's this 16

502
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,280
year old able to travel around
the world had a flight

503
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,040
cancellation made the best of
that export a new city got back

504
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:49,640
to the airport on a foster in
the world and I just went that's

505
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,040
it.
That's who they are.

506
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,760
These young people, no matter
what you throw at them, they're

507
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:58,000
able to tackle it with ease and
with enjoyment and and find the

508
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,280
best in every opportunity.
Amazing, fantastic.

509
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:08,520
And so when you think about like
models like TGS and, and similar

510
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,720
things like that, that are kind
of maybe outliers in when you

511
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,800
look at the, the education
landscape, what, what do you

512
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:20,880
think more traditional schools
can learn off places like TGS

513
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,000
or, or others that are doing
some really sort of pushing the

514
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,640
boundaries of how kids can, how
kids can learn.

515
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,440
I think outlier models like TGS
create the space for new

516
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,840
questions.
You know, what if learning

517
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:38,720
wasn't confined to a single
place?

518
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,520
What if learning looked like
adaptability rather than

519
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,760
standardization?
What if success was defined how

520
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,840
someone thinks and acts in the
world and not just their

521
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,640
credentials that they managed to
get through their schooling?

522
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,200
You know, these, even if these
models aren't widely replicated

523
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,520
or there's not the ability to be
able to replicate them, just

524
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,240
even servicing the questions is
key.

525
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,640
Do I think every school needs to
look like TGS?

526
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,680
Possibly not, because education
serves different communities,

527
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,600
contexts, and needs.
But I do believe there needs to

528
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:16,160
be outliers to the dominant
model, and there has to be

529
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,560
outliers in order to be able to
test assumptions and expand what

530
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,800
feels possible.
And maybe in that sense, being

531
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:27,240
an outlier like TGS, it is about
being thoughtful and reflective

532
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,720
and willing to share both what
works and what doesn't work.

533
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,280
And if we can broaden the
conversation on what's possible

534
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,920
in education, and that is
possible to have different

535
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,600
futures for education and make
that easier to imagine, then

536
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,960
maybe there's success in the
work that we're doing.

537
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,160
And look, I love that, you know,
this isn't a theoretical

538
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,120
conversation or a theoretical
model.

539
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,720
We're actually living it and
doing it and and showing that

540
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,600
it's possible.
So just tremendous.

541
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,720
So a couple of quick questions
to to wrap things up.

542
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:01,480
What's your favorite book and
why?

543
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:06,880
I really enjoy the book The
Adaptation Advantage by Heather

544
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:14,240
McGowan and Chris Shipley.
I picked up this book in 2021.

545
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,400
I'm going to say now to put that
in context, I'm living in

546
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,920
Melbourne, Australia in 2021,
the one of the world's most

547
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,280
locked down cities during COVID
times.

548
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,520
We spent nearly two years in and
out of lockdown and there was

549
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,880
this brief moment between a four
months lockdown and then we

550
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,560
would go back into another three
months lockdown, I think it was.

551
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,160
So it became a bit of a blur,
but there was this moment in

552
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:40,880
time where my goodness, the
shops opened and I went down to

553
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,760
a little bookshop in for those
listening that are Melbourne

554
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,480
based in Saint Kilda Readings
Bookshop.

555
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,680
And there's this book on the
shelf, the Adaptation Advantage.

556
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,560
And it was all around the future
of work and the trends that are

557
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:59,880
shifting how we work and how we
need to approach and shift our

558
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:04,320
mindset to equip this generation
of young people to be able to

559
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,560
really thrive in a fairly VUCA
world, an uncertain world.

560
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,160
So that book has with all my
travels.

561
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:13,960
It's one that I just keep on my
bookshelf.

562
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:18,960
It's, and it may be as well, the
memory of just it's such a

563
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,760
strong memory of being in such
an uncertain time during COVID

564
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,920
and then picking up this book in
in readings bookshop and coming

565
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,840
home and devouring it and just
so much of it resonated.

566
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:34,280
So there's my my favorite book
and the reason why it is as

567
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:38,440
well.
A leader, past or present, you

568
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,640
admire.
I had the great fortune in my

569
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,760
previous job at a Screen Green
School in Bali to meet Jane

570
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,160
Goodall.
And at the time I was an art

571
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,480
teacher, a visual arts teacher,
and I had my little outdoor

572
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,680
studio area, Bamboo Bamboo
Studio in Green School, Bali.

573
00:32:55,080 --> 00:33:01,280
And Jane Goodall came to visit,
and the sense of grace and

574
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:07,720
humility and calmness in which
she carried herself, I remember

575
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,000
thinking, if it was even just if
I could grab on to deceiving a

576
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,640
little bit a part of that, grab
onto a little part of that and

577
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,720
embody that myself, then that's
the sort of leader that I want

578
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,760
to be.
And finally, best advice you've

579
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,280
ever received.
Patience, just slow it down,

580
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,840
enjoy the moment.
I think sometimes we can over

581
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,880
complicate life and if we can
just wake up in the morning and

582
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,560
really enjoy that first cup of
coffee and take the time to to

583
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,840
welcome the day, be present, it
doesn't really have to be much

584
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,080
more complicated than that.
Well, that sounds, that sounds

585
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,640
pretty good to me.
So, yeah, sounds like a pretty

586
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,280
good place to leave things.
So look, thanks so much for your

587
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,000
time today, Jen.
It really appreciates being

588
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,400
fantastic learning more about
the the great work you and the

589
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,520
team are doing and and just
sounds like a a really wonderful

590
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,920
experience for for those
students who are fortunate

591
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,960
enough to be a part of it.
Thank you so much, Kevin, and

592
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,440
truly enjoyable to be able to
speak with you today.

593
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,440
Thanks so much for listening to
the episode.

594
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,720
If you enjoyed this
conversation, don't forget to

595
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,120
subscribe, like, follow,
etcetera.

596
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,400
Drop a comment below to let me
know anything you'd like covered

597
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:17,280
in upcoming episodes or
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598
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,199
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